Newbie questions (connectivity and turbo trainer itself)

[StanByk]

Hi everyone,

I am new to Veloreality and therefore have a few questions which I hope you guys will be able to help me with.

My main sport until recently has always been running, but I have now also gotten into cycling. To help me with my training I am considering to buy a Tacx Vortex Smart turbo trainer and use it with Veloreality to make the indoor training less boring.

My first set of questions centre around connectivity.
a) Will I be able to use my Garmin ANT+ heart rate strap together with Veloreality? Will I need my Garmin 910XT watch or will I be able to connect the heart rate monitor directly with the Veloreality software.

b) Can I get cadence from the Tacx Vortex Smart? Or will I need to buy a cadence sensor, e.g. the one from Garmin which uses ANT+ as far as I know?

c) I gather from what I have read that I should be able to import the data of my workout (“speed”, “gps course data”, heart rate, cadence, etc) into Sporttracks. Is that correct? I quite like Sporttracks and use it extensively for my running.

d) Will I be able to use the ANT+ USB stick that came with my Garmin 910XT to connect everything to my computer.

My second set of questions centre around the turbo trainer itself.
e) I will probably have to use it in my living room, so I am firstly concerned about noise and secondly about dirt falling off the bike. I have mud guards on my bike which I guess helps, but I want to avoid that I end up with a streak of dirt on the wall behind the bike. Has this ever been an issue for you? If yes how do you deal with it? Besides putting a mat under the bike, would you put something behind the bike to catch any dirt coming off the back wheel?

f) I can’t figure out if the Tacx Vortex Smart comes with the plastic bit to put under the front wheel so that the bike is level? are there any owners here who would know?

Sorry for all those questions! I would really appreciate any help I can get.
Thank you all in advance,
Robert

[admin]

Will I be able to use my Garmin ANT+ heart rate strap together with Veloreality?

Our software supports ANT+ so it can directly use that ANT+ HR sensor

Can I get cadence from the Tacx Vortex Smart? Or will I need to buy a cadence sensor

You can but if I were you I won't. They calculate cadence basing on changes in torque and it is VERY
inaccurate. From my experience I can have Vortex reporting 110 RPM when I was in fact doing 70.
So I would just buy proper cadence sensors.

I gather from what I have read that I should be able to import the data of my workout (“speed”, “gps course data”, heart rate, cadence, etc) into Sporttracks. Is that correct? I quite like Sporttracks and use it extensively for my running.

We save data in standard TCX format. Any major application/web service worth it's bread should able to use this format. I have absolutely no first hand experience with Sporttracks though.

Will I be able to use the ANT+ USB stick that came with my Garmin 910XT to connect everything to my computer.

I think you should.

I will probably have to use it in my living room, so I am firstly concerned about noise and secondly about dirt falling off the bike.

Lynx and Neo are trainers that I tried and know that they're quiet. Vortex at high RPM is anything but.

I have mud guards on my bike which I guess helps, but I want to avoid that I end up with a streak of dirt on the wall behind the bike. Has this ever been an issue for you? If yes how do you deal with it? Besides putting a mat under the bike, would you put something behind the bike to catch any dirt coming off the back wheel?

Never really had the problem but I do wash floor every once in a while, you know

I can’t figure out if the Tacx Vortex Smart comes with the plastic bit to put under the front wheel so that the bike is level? are there any owners here who would know?

The iVortex Smart I've purchased for testing did come with that thingy you put under your front wheel.

Finally our software is free as well as the demo video. Download it and try it and see if it does what you need and works ok. It has that test mode that lets you simulate riding cyclist so that you can check all the functionality and make sure that it works for you before you commit to any further purchases

[HHRoadtrip]

Hi StanByk,

I have exactly the set-up you are planning- Tacx Vortex Smart and VeloReality. I could not be more pleased!

Regarding your questions:
I use the Garmin heart rate strap with no trouble.
I use the Garmin cadence sensor.
My .tcx data gets imported without trouble to Strava- you may want to see if SportTracks has that capability.
I use a Suuntu mini Ant+ dongle- without any need for a USB extension. Try what you have, and if no good, get a Suuntu for $25.
Noise is lower than I expected, and negligible one room away.
I have a small amount of chain lube under the bike- the back wheel hasn't been outdoors for 8 weeks, so is pretty clean.
I received a front wheel support with the Vortex.

Try the free software and demo video when you get your Vortex- it's terrific. And check out DCRainmaker's website - he gives pretty detailed reviews of trainers and software- and his site provides a discount code for multiple products including the Vortex smart. Good luck.

[rncrowhurst]

Hi everyone,
To help me with my training I am considering to buy a Tacx Vortex Smart turbo trainer and use it with Veloreality to make the indoor training less boring.

I have a Tacx Vortext Smart. My wife and I used it for about a month before we purchased two Tacx Bushido Smarts. The Vortex now just sits on a shelf and neither of us consider it a realistic unit for virtual rides when compared to the Tacx Bushido Smart. I would recommend you buy the Vortex Smart only if you plan only to ride Zwift or the flatter rides from VeloReality. Even though the Bushido Smart is twice the price its worth the extra as likely is the Tacx Neo. If available in your area also look at the Lynx as its large drum roller is likely to be the most realistic feel.

The Vortex Smart is a great trainer if your have not ridden the actual climbs for the movies. Sadly it can only emulate a slope of 7% and even at my wife's weight of 45 Kg it can not produce enough resistance to feel like a real climb. At my weight of 84 Kg is is more like a 3% slope so riding the Stelvio on it is not like reality at all. This low electro braking capacity translates to a very unnatural climb when doing all the awesome Cols put out by VeloReality. For example my wife and I both rode the Hautacam, Izoard, Galibier and Ventoux this year in real life and have these as virtual climbs (all bar one from VeloReality). On the Vortex we rode these at 23 plus km/h where as in reality we rode more like 8-10 Km/h. One the Bushido Smart our virtual climb times are within a minute or 2 of our real ride times. Both my wife and I consider the Bushido Smart to be close to real life gradient emulation for the climbs we have done. You simply will not get that from the Vortex. A great unit but lacks sufficient power to make it a good emulator of harder and steeper climbs (actually anything over 4 % is going to be unrealistic).

a) Will I be able to use my Garmin ANT+ heart rate strap together with Veloreality?

Yes it works well

Will I need my Garmin 910XT watch or will I be able to connect the heart rate monitor directly with the Veloreality software.

VRide will pick it up after you do a search and it works well in VRide as long as its ANT+. VRide picks up my Garmin heart rate monitor that came with my Edge 1000

b) Can I get cadence from the Tacx Vortex Smart? Or will I need to buy a cadence sensor, e.g. the one from Garmin which uses ANT+ as far as I know?

Yes VRide will get the cadence output from all Tacx SMART units (Vortex, Bushido, Neo). You can also have separate ANT+ cadence sensors like your Garmin and it will detect that as well - you just select the active one to use from VRide's device manager but there is little point in doing that - just use the built in sensor in the Tacx unit.

c) I gather from what I have read that I should be able to import the data of my workout (“speed”, “gps course data”, heart rate, cadence, etc) into Sporttracks. Is that correct? I quite like Sporttracks and use it extensively for my running.

Consider using Strava for your virtual rides. VeloReality have creating (or are creating) Strava segments for their rides and these can be useful for training and comparison.

d) Will I be able to use the ANT+ USB stick that came with my Garmin 910XT to connect everything to my computer.

I use a standard Garmin ANT+ USB sensor - they work well with VRide

My second set of questions centre around the turbo trainer itself.
e) I will probably have to use it in my living room, so I am firstly concerned about noise and secondly about dirt falling off the bike. I have mud guards on my bike which I guess helps, but I want to avoid that I end up with a streak of dirt on the wall behind the bike. Has this ever been an issue for you? If yes how do you deal with it? Besides putting a mat under the bike, would you put something behind the bike to catch any dirt coming off the back wheel?

There is another issue to think about - that is tyre wear where the resistance causes very small fragments of rubber to wear off your tread. This is worse with increasing resistance but it happened with both our Vortex SMART and with our Bushido SMARTs. I think the VeloRelaity Lynx is a better design but its not available in my country. This tyre dust flicks everywhere but mostly around the units rollers. Having a mat underneath will be essential if using inside. We actaully opted to buy cheap back wheels and use old road tyres (washed first) as a means to keep road dirt and grime out of both the trainer and our areas.

f) I can’t figure out if the Tacx Vortex Smart comes with the plastic bit to put under the front wheel so that the bike is level? are there any owners here who would know?

Both the Vortex and Bushido SMART units have the front wheel support included in the box

Anyway my advice is to buy the more powerful Bushido, or Neo or a Lynx if you want the movies to feel more realistic. Purchasing the Vortex introduced us to the SMART trainer world but the desire for a more realistic training experience meant we left the Vortex SMART behind very quickly. However, cost is a factor and if the Bushido, Neo, or Lynx are out of your price range then definitely get the Vortex and focus on the flatter or very gradual climbs.

Thats my 2 cents worth anyway

[VeloReality Video]

On the Vortex we rode these at 23 plus km/h where as in reality we rode more like 8-10 Km/h. One the Bushido Smart our virtual climb times are within a minute or 2 of our real ride times. Both my wife and I consider the Bushido Smart to be close to real life gradient emulation for the climbs we have done. You simply will not get that from the Vortex. A great unit but lacks sufficient power to make it a good emulator of harder and steeper climbs (actually anything over 4 % is going to be unrealistic).

Im hoping you mean here that this is the wheel speed not the speed you have in the software which will be 8-10kph normally

[admin]

On the Vortex we rode these at 23 plus km/h where as in reality we rode more like 8-10 Km/h. One the Bushido Smart our virtual climb times are within a minute or 2 of our real ride times. Both my wife and I consider the Bushido Smart to be close to real life gradient emulation for the climbs we have done. You simply will not get that from the Vortex. A great unit but lacks sufficient power to make it a good emulator of harder and steeper climbs (actually anything over 4 % is going to be unrealistic).

Im hoping you mean here that this is the wheel speed not the speed you have in the software which will be 8-10kph normally

It is a wheel speed. Speed reported by trainers/speed sensors is ignored and there is no way the software will let you do 23kph in the conditions mentioned.

[HHRoadtrip]

Hi StanByk,

It sounds as if a bargain-priced Vortex might be available- " The Vortex now just sits on a shelf and neither of us consider it a realistic unit for virtual rides when compared to the Tacx Bushido Smart" by rncrowhurst. You might want to contact him. rncrowhurst might get it off the shelf, and you might get a one-month old Vortex for the cost of shipping plus a (heavily) discounted purchase price. Win-win situation. Good luck.

[rncrowhurst]

On the Vortex we rode these at 23 plus km/h where as in reality we rode more like 8-10 Km/h. One the Bushido Smart our virtual climb times are within a minute or 2 of our real ride times. Both my wife and I consider the Bushido Smart to be close to real life gradient emulation for the climbs we have done. You simply will not get that from the Vortex. A great unit but lacks sufficient power to make it a good emulator of harder and steeper climbs (actually anything over 4 % is going to be unrealistic).

Im hoping you mean here that this is the wheel speed not the speed you have in the software which will be 8-10kph normally

It is a wheel speed. Speed reported by trainers/speed sensors is ignored and there is no way the software will let you do 23kph in the conditions mentioned.

Correct its the wheel speed as measured by our PowerTap power meters independently of the Vortex SMART and Bushido SMART. Having a PowerTap Power meter allows us to make the comparison. The Bushido Smart and PowerTap give very similar speeds when riding the movies which reinforces the suggestion I make that the Bushido is more realistic as well as riding the movies at a similar time to the real life. On the other hand the Vortex (as registered by VRide speed) and the PowerTap speed on the same movie are very different and the wheel speed as registered by PowerTap is much faster. In TTS4 as well the Bushido SMART and PowerTap agree closely as to speed and power and the speed in TTS4 is in "white" where as with the Vortex the power is similar to the PowerTap but the speed is way different and displays in "red". On the Vortex SMART we were riding in our large chain rings (50/34) in middle of the cluster (12/27). On the same course on the Bushido we are in small chain rings and easiest gears in cluster which is more realistic compared to real life gearing experience on these climbs. These observations are relevant to us as we want as near a real ride indoor as we can "afford". They may not be relevant to anyone else. If you don't have a PowerTap and are physically able to ride up these cols in your large chain ring then maybe you wont notice. Our French guide did indeed ride up Ventoux in his large chain ring the whole way whereas the rest of us were in lowest gearing on small chain ring and thats what the Bushido emulated well while the Vortex cant not.

Hope this clears up how we make our comparisons and why we (both my wife and I) think the units with more resistance (Bushido, Genius, Neo, VeloReality Lynx) would long term be better

So for us the Vortex SMART although a nice unit is not as a true emulator of real life when the gradient rises. That's our experience from having both the Vortex and Bushido and PowerTaps but it is only our experience - yours may differ. Plus you need to buy the unit that suites your pocket and in the end that's often the deciding factor.

[rncrowhurst]

Hi StanByk,

It sounds as if a bargain-priced Vortex might be available- " The Vortex now just sits on a shelf and neither of us consider it a realistic unit for virtual rides when compared to the Tacx Bushido Smart" by rncrowhurst. You might want to contact him. rncrowhurst might get it off the shelf, and you might get a one-month old Vortex for the cost of shipping plus a (heavily) discounted purchase price. Win-win situation. Good luck.

Good suggestion to sell it as its in "new condition" and we definitely are not using it. It has no Tacx packaging any more as that was thrown out the week we got it. Shipping to and from New Zealand to the rest of the world is not cheap

However, I would still recommend you consider the Bushido not the Vortex but as in my original post thats just my 2 cents worth

[StanByk]

Hi,

buying a used one would be fine for me, but I guess shipping it to London, England would be prohibitively expensive.
I'll think about the Bushido. Does anyone have any experience with the Kickr Snap?

A big thank you to everyone by the way! Your answers were really helpful. I have downloaded the software and looked at the demo track. Looks cool!
I might go into town at the weekend. There surely must be a bicycle shop somewhere in central London who has a turbo trainer on display...

Thanks again!
Robert

Good suggestion to sell it as its in "new condition" and we definitely are not using it. It has no Tacx packaging any more as that was thrown out the week we got it. Shipping to and from New Zealand to the rest of the world is not cheap

However, I would still recommend you consider the Bushido not the Vortex but as in my original post thats just my 2 cents worth